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	<title>Comments on: Hiring women</title>
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	<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/</link>
	<description>Women, feminism, and geek culture</description>
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		<title>By: mdz</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-977</link>
		<dc:creator>mdz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-977</guid>
		<description>A response via Twitter from anitaborg_org:

http://anitaborg.org/news/research/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A response via Twitter from anitaborg_org:</p>
<p><a href="http://anitaborg.org/news/research/" rel="nofollow">http://anitaborg.org/news/research/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Skud</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator>Skud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-968</guid>
		<description>No apology needed!  Always good to hear about workplaces that women like working in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No apology needed!  Always good to hear about workplaces that women like working in.</p>
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		<title>By: mdz</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>mdz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-967</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your suggestions.

I think it would be good for the company to have a diversity statement and to publish it prominently, but I can&#039;t speak on behalf of the whole company in this regard.  For the moment, I&#039;m focusing on my own department and my own hiring, where I can take an active role personally.

I think such a local approach is likely to be applicable to many other companies, where there is organizational inertia to overcome in creating or changing company policy.

I could certainly speak more publicly about my department and what it&#039;s like to work there, and our goals for diversity at that level.  Perhaps some testimonials from the current team would be useful in this regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your suggestions.</p>
<p>I think it would be good for the company to have a diversity statement and to publish it prominently, but I can&#8217;t speak on behalf of the whole company in this regard.  For the moment, I&#8217;m focusing on my own department and my own hiring, where I can take an active role personally.</p>
<p>I think such a local approach is likely to be applicable to many other companies, where there is organizational inertia to overcome in creating or changing company policy.</p>
<p>I could certainly speak more publicly about my department and what it&#8217;s like to work there, and our goals for diversity at that level.  Perhaps some testimonials from the current team would be useful in this regard.</p>
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		<title>By: gchick</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-956</link>
		<dc:creator>gchick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-956</guid>
		<description>It almost feels like it should be obvious, but put your commitment to diversity where people can see it -- looking at the jobs listings page you linked to and everything immediately around it (careers, legal, etc.), I can&#039;t find it anywhere. And here&#039;s the thing: I trust that Canonical isn&#039;t going to do anything obnoxiously illegal in the interview, because they&#039;re a company that seems to want to do things right. And I know as a longtime *ubuntu user that the community has a set of standards that a lot of users care about (even if they&#039;re not always followed across the board); not to mention that the whole project is based on a very cool humanity-to-others ethics and diversity thingamabob. So y&#039;all are starting out a couple of steps up on most tech companies.

And yet, if you&#039;re speaking peaking to me as an (imaginary) potential job-seeker, all that gets you is &quot;well, they&#039;re probably better than some&quot;. Having worked in some crappy environments, I look hard for whatever evidence I can find about a company as a work environment... and I see nothing at all about the work environment or your desire for diversity on the careers site, which in my mind translates to &quot;business as usual&quot;. And, again, that&#039;s an organization that I have a  long relationship with and already think well of.

Don&#039;t assume that &lt;i&gt;of course&lt;/i&gt; everyone knows you wouldn&#039;t do anything assholish. Don&#039;t assume that people will think that because Ubuntu represents something cool, working  for Canonical will be idyllic -- a lot of women, queers, and I assume other non-white-nerd-guy candidates too, have had bad experiences with working in places where the ideals sound just fabulous -- including open source itself taken as a whole. You could start with putting your diversity commitment in every single job listing on your site, for example (if you don&#039;t have one, Dreamwidth&#039;s is excellent and cc-licensed): my current employer does something similar by not only saying &quot;$ORG is an equal opportunity employer&quot; (standard for U.S. job listings), but also adding something like &quot;we are strongly committed to diversity and actively seeking to increase the racial, ethnic, and gender diversity of our staff&quot; and that makes me damned proud even when I&#039;m annoyed by the realities work. It&#039;s the difference between &quot;they won&#039;t deliberately screw up&quot; and &quot;they really want to do this right&quot;, and it&#039;s not the kind of thing you can just assume people will trust you about -- or even if they do, it&#039;s a gesture of support up-front to have it there explicitly.

Obviously, I&#039;m only speaking to the &quot;attract more applicants&quot; part of your equation. But the more you do to make it clear that you really mean it, organization-wide, the easier it will get to get diverse applicants over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It almost feels like it should be obvious, but put your commitment to diversity where people can see it &#8212; looking at the jobs listings page you linked to and everything immediately around it (careers, legal, etc.), I can&#8217;t find it anywhere. And here&#8217;s the thing: I trust that Canonical isn&#8217;t going to do anything obnoxiously illegal in the interview, because they&#8217;re a company that seems to want to do things right. And I know as a longtime *ubuntu user that the community has a set of standards that a lot of users care about (even if they&#8217;re not always followed across the board); not to mention that the whole project is based on a very cool humanity-to-others ethics and diversity thingamabob. So y&#8217;all are starting out a couple of steps up on most tech companies.</p>
<p>And yet, if you&#8217;re speaking peaking to me as an (imaginary) potential job-seeker, all that gets you is &#8220;well, they&#8217;re probably better than some&#8221;. Having worked in some crappy environments, I look hard for whatever evidence I can find about a company as a work environment&#8230; and I see nothing at all about the work environment or your desire for diversity on the careers site, which in my mind translates to &#8220;business as usual&#8221;. And, again, that&#8217;s an organization that I have a  long relationship with and already think well of.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t assume that <i>of course</i> everyone knows you wouldn&#8217;t do anything assholish. Don&#8217;t assume that people will think that because Ubuntu represents something cool, working  for Canonical will be idyllic &#8212; a lot of women, queers, and I assume other non-white-nerd-guy candidates too, have had bad experiences with working in places where the ideals sound just fabulous &#8212; including open source itself taken as a whole. You could start with putting your diversity commitment in every single job listing on your site, for example (if you don&#8217;t have one, Dreamwidth&#8217;s is excellent and cc-licensed): my current employer does something similar by not only saying &#8220;$ORG is an equal opportunity employer&#8221; (standard for U.S. job listings), but also adding something like &#8220;we are strongly committed to diversity and actively seeking to increase the racial, ethnic, and gender diversity of our staff&#8221; and that makes me damned proud even when I&#8217;m annoyed by the realities work. It&#8217;s the difference between &#8220;they won&#8217;t deliberately screw up&#8221; and &#8220;they really want to do this right&#8221;, and it&#8217;s not the kind of thing you can just assume people will trust you about &#8212; or even if they do, it&#8217;s a gesture of support up-front to have it there explicitly.</p>
<p>Obviously, I&#8217;m only speaking to the &#8220;attract more applicants&#8221; part of your equation. But the more you do to make it clear that you really mean it, organization-wide, the easier it will get to get diverse applicants over time.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-954</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-954</guid>
		<description>This is probably the wrong wrong inappropriate place to put this (sorry Skud), but the page was open on my browser, and momentum is a powerful thing. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://lindenlab.com/employment&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Linden Lab is hiring for a variety of positions&lt;/a&gt; here in SF, Boston, Singapore, Davis, Mountain View, Virginia, and Brighton UK. We offer a family friendly set of benefits, and have a higher than normal number of females in executive and engineering positions. Plus, very strange inworld meetings where everyone can fly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is probably the wrong wrong inappropriate place to put this (sorry Skud), but the page was open on my browser, and momentum is a powerful thing. </p>
<p><a href="http://lindenlab.com/employment" rel="nofollow">Linden Lab is hiring for a variety of positions</a> here in SF, Boston, Singapore, Davis, Mountain View, Virginia, and Brighton UK. We offer a family friendly set of benefits, and have a higher than normal number of females in executive and engineering positions. Plus, very strange inworld meetings where everyone can fly.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-951</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-951</guid>
		<description>Ah, I see you use res.cls too :)  Mine is rather heavily modified though.  Hmm I like that &quot;tools, libraries, methodologies&quot; section under &quot;Technical Skills.&quot;  Thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see you use res.cls too :)  Mine is rather heavily modified though.  Hmm I like that &#8220;tools, libraries, methodologies&#8221; section under &#8220;Technical Skills.&#8221;  Thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-950</guid>
		<description>
My resume breaks open source involvement out into a separate section listing project name, URI, and my role (author, maintainer, contributor, whatever).  (Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://shadowspar.dyndns.org/rick/about/rscott-resume.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my resume&lt;/a&gt; if you&#039;d like to have a look).



Another option is to put open source projects into your &quot;experience&quot; section right along with the jobs.  I&#039;m not sure how well this goes over on a paper resume since the expectation is often that volunteer stuff shouldn&#039;t be lumped in with paid experience (even though the learning is no less valuable).  On the other hand, the way LinkedIn presents this sort of thing is really nice -- it makes it very, very apparent if you&#039;re involved in a lot of community projects.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My resume breaks open source involvement out into a separate section listing project name, URI, and my role (author, maintainer, contributor, whatever).  (Here&#8217;s <a href="http://shadowspar.dyndns.org/rick/about/rscott-resume.pdf" rel="nofollow">my resume</a> if you&#8217;d like to have a look).</p>
<p>Another option is to put open source projects into your &#8220;experience&#8221; section right along with the jobs.  I&#8217;m not sure how well this goes over on a paper resume since the expectation is often that volunteer stuff shouldn&#8217;t be lumped in with paid experience (even though the learning is no less valuable).  On the other hand, the way LinkedIn presents this sort of thing is really nice &#8212; it makes it very, very apparent if you&#8217;re involved in a lot of community projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-947</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-947</guid>
		<description>So I end up wondering how to put FOSS contributions on my resume.  Right now, the only mention is down in the &quot;Affiliations&quot; section where I put that I&#039;m in ACM and things like that &quot;Ubuntu Contributor.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I end up wondering how to put FOSS contributions on my resume.  Right now, the only mention is down in the &#8220;Affiliations&#8221; section where I put that I&#8217;m in ACM and things like that &#8220;Ubuntu Contributor.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Skud</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-932</link>
		<dc:creator>Skud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-932</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If folks aren’t buzzing around the AO3 and Dreamwidth talent pools, however, I can’t imagine why not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are so damn right, and that didn&#039;t occur to me.  *headdesk*  Yeah.

ETA: I posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://damned-colonial.dreamwidth.org/51449.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; to try and encourage DW/AO3 developers to list their experience where people can find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If folks aren’t buzzing around the AO3 and Dreamwidth talent pools, however, I can’t imagine why not.</p></blockquote>
<p>You are so damn right, and that didn&#8217;t occur to me.  *headdesk*  Yeah.</p>
<p>ETA: I posted <a href="http://damned-colonial.dreamwidth.org/51449.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> to try and encourage DW/AO3 developers to list their experience where people can find it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea Salo</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/09/14/hiring-women/comment-page-1/#comment-931</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea Salo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=935#comment-931</guid>
		<description>Consider the &quot;feral techie,&quot; by which I mean someone who has learned some technical chops without formal training or explicit recognition. (I count myself among this number, by the way.)

The catch here is that male feral techies often establish their bona fides through working on open-source software. For all the reasons this site and its sister wiki are documenting, this isn&#039;t necessarily a fruitful method of finding female feral techies. (If folks aren&#039;t buzzing around the AO3 and Dreamwidth talent pools, however, I can&#039;t imagine why not.)

One way is to look right under your nose. I was hired back in the day to do data-entry in a custom Access database. The unit&#039;s IT folks discovered that I was a quick learner and unafraid, and so when it was time to re-customize the database, they decided to turn me loose on it, with concomitant title change and pay raise. Everybody won: I got more money and a better résumé; IT got to offload a rather unpleasant job (Visual Basic argh) onto someone who understood the problem domain very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider the &#8220;feral techie,&#8221; by which I mean someone who has learned some technical chops without formal training or explicit recognition. (I count myself among this number, by the way.)</p>
<p>The catch here is that male feral techies often establish their bona fides through working on open-source software. For all the reasons this site and its sister wiki are documenting, this isn&#8217;t necessarily a fruitful method of finding female feral techies. (If folks aren&#8217;t buzzing around the AO3 and Dreamwidth talent pools, however, I can&#8217;t imagine why not.)</p>
<p>One way is to look right under your nose. I was hired back in the day to do data-entry in a custom Access database. The unit&#8217;s IT folks discovered that I was a quick learner and unafraid, and so when it was time to re-customize the database, they decided to turn me loose on it, with concomitant title change and pay raise. Everybody won: I got more money and a better résumé; IT got to offload a rather unpleasant job (Visual Basic argh) onto someone who understood the problem domain very well.</p>
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