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Another conference, another sexist comment in a keynote speech by a leader in the open source community. And September was going so well!
I just sent the following to Mark Shuttleworth, founder and leader of the Ubuntu Linux project.
Hi Mark,
I’m writing to you as a woman who has been involved in Linux and open source for more than 15 years, and who has been very involved in discussions around women in open source of late; I recently keynoted OSCON and Atlanta Linux Fest on the subject, and I also run the Geek Feminism wiki (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/) and blog (http://geekfeminism.org/).
I’m sorry I wasn’t able to make it to LinuxCon this year; I hear it’s a pretty good event. I’ve been listening with some interest to people’s reports of what’s going on there, and this afternoon I heard from multiple sources about your keynote, in which you referred to our work in Linux as being “hard to explain to girls”.
I wanted to bring this up because I think what you said in that talk was pretty dismissive of the skill and dedication that many women have already brought to Linux, not only as designers and documenters (which I gather you mentioned in your talk) but as coders, release managers, sysadmins, and more — and of those who might be interested in the future.
2009 is shaping up to be a watershed year for women in open source. We have seen numerous high profile incidents where men have made remarks in conference presentations which have dismissed, marginalised, or upset women; we’ve seen an increase in discussion on blogs, mailing lists, and twitter/identica; many conferences have invited speakers (including myself) to keynote on the subject of inclusivity and diversity; and a number of efforts towards recruiting and supporting a more diverse open source community have been launched. In light of the attention the subject has been getting of late, your comment at LinuxCon seems oblivious at best, and only serves to further damage the Linux community’s reputation.
I’d like to invite you to think about the message you’re sending to women in the Linux community, and, if you didn’t mean to convey the message that we’re technical illiterates and hard to educate, consider apologising publicly.
Yours,
Kirrily Robert
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Hey Skud, all !
Just adding my two cents to the mix – why not just send a normal (as opposed to open) letter to Mark first ?
I’m not debating whether or not some people were offended, or if they’re right to feel what they feel. I also think it’s totally fair to comment or criticize things said in a public setting like a conference.
But this is the internet – there are hordes of people out there who just won’t take the time to read, understand, think about it and will either somehow brand Mark as a bad person, or instead will see your reaction as extreme activism (both would be wrong, of course).
I’m in no way telling you to shut up when you see things that don’t look good to you – but Mark & team are probably among the few who’d react positively if you contacted them directly – I imagine a common statement could have been made, something that’d have had a bigger impact overall.
No ?
Hi Stefan,
I don’t think this argument makes sense — if we can’t even get an apology with a very high-profile public letter, it seems bogus to argue that we would get one if only we’d asked privately instead. And would we have been able to make this hypothetical private apology public, if we had received it? If not, it isn’t doing much good — the purpose should be for Mark to let the world know that he doesn’t think about women this way, contrary to the words he used, and that isn’t accomplished by receiving a private apology to one person that stays private.
In any case, my understanding is that someone did raise it with Mark immediately after the talk, and was brushed off. I can’t remember where I read that, though, sorry.
Thank you Stephan, for your kind mansplanation. I can’t tell you what a pleasure its been!
No, really, don’t mention it.
Really.
Stella, that’s a really sexist remark. I thought we were all above that on this thread. I don’t think Stefan was being patronizing at all. He was just voicing his opinion.
I agree with mookiemu; the personal attack was uncalled for.
ah, maybe you two are right– but you know, there just isn’t any other word for “the patronising comment or explanation which makes it obvious that the explainer hasn’t followed the conversation at all, but must make himself heard.”
Hey, it’s a sexist language, don’t blame me.
Hee hee, it feels so freaking good to be able to say that once in a while!
I’ll leave the field to the gentlemen allies, who aren’t yet sick to the teeth of eternal repetition, with genuine and grateful thanks.
@Stella
No, we’re tired of it too. I’ve been beating my head against this wall for about 2-3 days now. I used to lurk a lot and not say anything, and anyone who has been doing this for longer (being vocal and active) has mad props from me because my brain is currently bleeding from just 2-3 active days.
@ mookiemu
This is what happens when someone comes in and basically gives the same reasons why you shouldn’t be doing what your doing, the ones you’ve been hearing for years.
This is a prime example of the witch hunt. Because other people won’t bother to read up on the facts then you shouldn’t do what you’re doing.
Also if there had been a reading of the other comments there are many references to people who also approached privately. Last time I checked (which was a couple of minutes ago) there is no apology to be found.
Also the “I’m not telling you to do X but” tends to mean you’re exactly doing just that.
Geez..
No wonder why europeans consider americans oversensitve, retarded zealots.. [editor's note: Skud isn't an American]
Dealing with americans online through free software projects is something I find very.. “demanding” already, if their women(!) are even worse as this extremely poor blog post grasping for straws to find something new for these “feminist sisters” to nag about, more than indicate, I can only hope that such harsh “sexism” remarks as this will scare ‘em off for good!
Oh and yes, having nagging that another person you knew that knew another person who was there heard about if from someone else who supposedly also were said to be present [editor's note: thanks for adding in a few more rounds of the Telephone Game than actually happened!], serve as something you’d writen an open letter about ANY issue to ANYONE at all, *DOES* make you look *stupid*. When the subject is feminist oversensitivity with a lot of other erratic chicks joining in, it also DOES make other women look stupid as well.. oh.. someone, PLEASE! Think of The poor american women…
fønni. :D
I am very much interested in the progress of equality in our society, in all its various forms, gender, economic, racial, etc. so I find this very fascinating.
What I don’t understand and I’m hoping that someone can explain to me is: How does this notion of putting another person in a position of “privilege” which they are able to abuse not place your own marginalized group in the “victim” category? Or, more precisely applied in this situation: Do you really believe that these lingustic misapplications are an active attempt to subjugate women, or are they a symptom of a larger problem, and if the latter, how does highlighting the symptom and asking for an apology help the root of the problem?
I find that when insulted the most effective way to staunch the insulter is to simply ignore them and wait for their foolishness to become self-evident. Is my anecdotal experience contradicted by some peer reviewed research of which I am unaware?
Samuel,
It has been said that there are no stupid questions, but– I find it very difficult to assume your questions are in good faith.
If my suspicions are correct, then answering them would be stupid.
My question in return;
Do you understand that the rhetorical device of asking assumptive and leading questions will inevitably be perceived as insulting, no matter how delicately phrased they are– especially when those questions have been addressed over and over already, on this very page?
Stella,
No, I mean the questions in very good faith, and I wasn’t intentionally employing any rhetorical devices (although apparently that’s exceedingly easy to do by accident.) I believe I’ve read the entirety of this thread.. I don’t find the answers.
So, I’ll politely excuse your rather thinly veiled ad hominem if you can show me where they are answered.
I don’t recall asking to be excused.
You used the term“marginalised.”
That should be answer enough. Trust me, no group marginalises itself– it’s not a position of choice. You’re saying that if women pretend that men as a group have no power to harass, or harm, or embarrass or discomfort the few women within a group– then men won’t have that power anymore–
Nice bit of magical thinking there.
yes, these linguistic misapplications DO contribute to the subjection of women, yes, this is a symptom of a larger problem, and yes, we treat these large problems symptomatically.
Its like picking up pieces of garbage; you do it piece by piece. You have to live in that space; what will you do, wait for a hurricane to blow it all away at once?
You offer anecdote and demand per-review in exchange? A gentle jest, withal!
but in my own anecdotal experience, (spanning more than fifty years in fact) waiting for the fool to realise his foolishness is a great way to gather belly-button lint. And when the foolishness is along the lines of ” the girls don’t mind what we say about them,” and the girls never tell him that they DO mind– well, that bellybutton lint will fill a king-size bed pillow before any man figures it out for himself.
A more extreme version;
“Well she must like being slapped around, she’s never tried to stop me!”
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