Comments on: Quick hit: Richard Stallman comments on “Emacs virgins” incident

By: Asad

Asad — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:33:05 +0000

Context: I was responding to David Glasser’s “even if it were adequate apology for his sexist remarks…”

By: Asad

Asad — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:28:03 +0000

Uhm, I’m assuming we’re talking about the shtick sans the Emacs Virgin comment? I saw it once, don’t remember the Emacs virgins bit (I agree that that’s creepy), but frankly I think that wearing a hard drive platter on your head is funny, if not a great way for make people take you or your message seriously.

But, YMMV. I may simply have a more juvenile sense of humour.

By: Leigh Honeywell

Leigh Honeywell — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:48:57 +0000

Um, that’s the one I and many others find creepy and inappropriate. Since when were we talking about anything else?

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:14:50 +0000

@Chris:

Serious question: do you think an apology is necessary?

My take on apologies is that you make one when:
1. something undesirable occurred
2. your voluntary actions contributed to it, even if unknowingly
3. you wish to make amends

So not making one implies to me that you disagree with either one of those three things, or you disagree with my whole argument here. I can’t say for sure what RMS’s opinion is obviously, but it seems to me that he is accepting #1 but denying #2 by use of the word “misunderstanding”, which seems to locate all of the contributions to the event on the actions of those who did not correctly understand him. (An alternative might be, for example, saying that that wasn’t his intended meaning, but that it was a reasonable interpretation that he should have anticipated and avoided, or something like that.)

I don’t know about ‘necessary’: I think that call has to be made by the person themselves. We can ask for apologies, we can say that something undesirable happened and that someone contributed to it. If it had been me, I would make one in this case though.

By: Asad

Asad — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:31:57 +0000

I was referring to the Saint whatever thing he does, re the Catholicism, where he wears the the hard drive platter on his head.

By: Leigh Honeywell

Leigh Honeywell — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:13:10 +0000

While you may “admit” that it’s funny, many other folks have “admitted” that it’s creepy and inappropriate as well as quite unfunny :p

By: tigtog

tigtog — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:13:44 +0000

I’m suggesting at this point, this issue might not be such a big deal. But by all means, if you disagree, if you DO think it’s worth it: go right ahead discuss this issue into the ground, for the next *decade* if you think that’ll actually acomplish anything worthwhile. I don’t.

Who exactly is discussing this issue into the ground? Blogs such as this are making the occasional update post on one particular example that illustrates a broader issue of interest (sexism in geek culture), and the people who are discussing it into the ground are the people reacting defensively to those update posts, from where I’m sitting.

The important issue here is sexism in geek culture. Stallman’s “joke” is just one example of it. It’s used to illustrate the larger issue. His joke not the major perpetrator of geek-sexism by a long shot, but it’s at the very least an enabler. It’s people who want to focus only on the particular semantics of Stallman’s joke and later comment/”explanation”, as if it’s an isolated phenomenon instead of a systemic trope, that are blocking forward progress on the larger issue.

By: Brenda

Brenda — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:20:59 +0000

so — “those who haven’t used emacs are like male virgins and you you have duty to take their virginity from them”….. ??

Changing the “joke” to be male, or both genders doesn’t save it…

By: FoolishOwl

FoolishOwl — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:18:53 +0000

I have to disagree a bit. It’s pretty frequent that young men are mocked for being virgins. The valence is different — it translates to, “you are a contemptible loser,” instead of “you are an unclaimed commodity,” but it’s still clearly a sexualized insult. Stallman’s revised joke is no improvement.

By: Asad

Asad — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:43:39 +0000

Yep. There’s just no need to go there. I’ve seen the shtick and I admit it’s funny and all, but in the end it probably detracts more from what is otherwise a very effective message than it brings.