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	<title>Comments on: From comments: FoolishOwl on those pesky distractions</title>
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	<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/</link>
	<description>Women, feminism, and geek culture</description>
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		<title>By: Shiny</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>Shiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>The key difference is motivation. I doubt scheduling &quot;you will
read tech blogs 3 hours a week&quot; will fulfill this. People need to be self motivated to do this.  A certain level of enthusiasm in technology is needed.

Is there some way to judge this from an interview when the applicant is also tied up so much in the evening with &quot;family&quot; tasks that they&#039;ll never attend a tech talk after hours, and hasn&#039;t had time for blogs or mailing lists for years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The key difference is motivation. I doubt scheduling &#8220;you will<br />
read tech blogs 3 hours a week&#8221; will fulfill this. People need to be self motivated to do this.  A certain level of enthusiasm in technology is needed.</p>
<p>Is there some way to judge this from an interview when the applicant is also tied up so much in the evening with &#8220;family&#8221; tasks that they&#8217;ll never attend a tech talk after hours, and hasn&#8217;t had time for blogs or mailing lists for years.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2877</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2877</guid>
		<description>I tend to take that point of view as well: other professionals attend classes or subscribe to magazines in their fields, this (blogging, email lists, etc.) is my professional development. It just happens not to cost my employer not much other than a bit of my time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to take that point of view as well: other professionals attend classes or subscribe to magazines in their fields, this (blogging, email lists, etc.) is my professional development. It just happens not to cost my employer not much other than a bit of my time!</p>
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		<title>By: FoolishOwl</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2870</link>
		<dc:creator>FoolishOwl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2870</guid>
		<description>That &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; an excellent post.

The comments on Tom Waits using domestic work as a metaphor reminds me of a friend who had a favorite Marx quote, a warning against Utopian models, something like, &quot;The recipes of a future society will be created in tomorrow&#039;s kitchens.&quot; (I haven&#039;t been able to find the source.)  More directly related to the topic at hand, I had a calculus instructor last semester who would use cooking metaphors to explain concepts, such as describing the process of using integrations by the disc method to determine the volume of a curved solid as being like Chinese cooking, in which you  make fine slices.

The point being, there&#039;s a wealth of concepts in domestic tasks -- a great deal of valuable knowledge -- and concepts discovered in one field of human endeavor often prove valuable in another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That <b>is</b> an excellent post.</p>
<p>The comments on Tom Waits using domestic work as a metaphor reminds me of a friend who had a favorite Marx quote, a warning against Utopian models, something like, &#8220;The recipes of a future society will be created in tomorrow&#8217;s kitchens.&#8221; (I haven&#8217;t been able to find the source.)  More directly related to the topic at hand, I had a calculus instructor last semester who would use cooking metaphors to explain concepts, such as describing the process of using integrations by the disc method to determine the volume of a curved solid as being like Chinese cooking, in which you  make fine slices.</p>
<p>The point being, there&#8217;s a wealth of concepts in domestic tasks &#8212; a great deal of valuable knowledge &#8212; and concepts discovered in one field of human endeavor often prove valuable in another.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea Salo</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2869</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea Salo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2869</guid>
		<description>I ran across &lt;a href=&quot;http://longstoryshortpier.com/2004/04/12/braiding&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this apropos blog post&lt;/a&gt;, which I linked to back in the day. It says a lot of what I might say about this question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran across <a href="http://longstoryshortpier.com/2004/04/12/braiding" rel="nofollow">this apropos blog post</a>, which I linked to back in the day. It says a lot of what I might say about this question.</p>
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		<title>By: Restructure!</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2855</link>
		<dc:creator>Restructure!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2855</guid>
		<description>Hiring domestic help doesn&#039;t solve the core problem of gendered responsibility in a different-sex relationship. Also, most different-sex couples cannot afford that.

I retract my earlier suggestion that an affluent woman is burdening the domestic worker by hiring her/him. However, the affluent woman is not being progressive or feminist by doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hiring domestic help doesn&#8217;t solve the core problem of gendered responsibility in a different-sex relationship. Also, most different-sex couples cannot afford that.</p>
<p>I retract my earlier suggestion that an affluent woman is burdening the domestic worker by hiring her/him. However, the affluent woman is not being progressive or feminist by doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Asad</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2848</link>
		<dc:creator>Asad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2848</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s kind of the conflict/point though.  If we lived in a world in which it were possible to achieve those things (ungendered labour divisions) by individual economic decisions, then it would be obviously wrong to hire domestic labour.  

In a world in which our individual acts don&#039;t really make much of a difference, how is it worse to avoid hiring domestic labour?  I mean, it unemploys someone who needs the job.  On what should we then spend the money to fix that person&#039;s problems?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s kind of the conflict/point though.  If we lived in a world in which it were possible to achieve those things (ungendered labour divisions) by individual economic decisions, then it would be obviously wrong to hire domestic labour.  </p>
<p>In a world in which our individual acts don&#8217;t really make much of a difference, how is it worse to avoid hiring domestic labour?  I mean, it unemploys someone who needs the job.  On what should we then spend the money to fix that person&#8217;s problems?</p>
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		<title>By: Carla Schroder</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2834</link>
		<dc:creator>Carla Schroder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2834</guid>
		<description>Forgot to mention that housecleaning is good honest labor-- there&#039;s nothing demeaning about it. Anyone willing to work hard, be reliable, and do good work is worthy of respect and a fair wage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot to mention that housecleaning is good honest labor&#8211; there&#8217;s nothing demeaning about it. Anyone willing to work hard, be reliable, and do good work is worthy of respect and a fair wage.</p>
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		<title>By: Carla Schroder</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2833</link>
		<dc:creator>Carla Schroder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 03:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2833</guid>
		<description>Skud, someone who is looking for work now wants a paycheck now. You&#039;re describing a multi-level issue not an either-or problem. Hire a housekeeper in good conscience; reforming society has bit of a longer time horizon than someone who has bills to pay now.

I cleaned houses lo so many years ago. I had a good clientele and some people working for me, and did pretty well. The biggest downside was it was boring, my brain felt like it had died. But it allowed me to be independent and learn a lot of useful business skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skud, someone who is looking for work now wants a paycheck now. You&#8217;re describing a multi-level issue not an either-or problem. Hire a housekeeper in good conscience; reforming society has bit of a longer time horizon than someone who has bills to pay now.</p>
<p>I cleaned houses lo so many years ago. I had a good clientele and some people working for me, and did pretty well. The biggest downside was it was boring, my brain felt like it had died. But it allowed me to be independent and learn a lot of useful business skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Restructure!</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2827</link>
		<dc:creator>Restructure!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2827</guid>
		<description>@Terri: 

Whoa, I&#039;m not suggesting that people should discriminate against job applicants who are non-white and hire only white people who already have some money!

I&#039;m just saying that hiring domestic workers does not solve the underlying problem of housework being considered a woman&#039;s responsibility. Most women in the world, and most women in developed countries, cannot afford to hire someone else to do the housework. I can&#039;t afford it. The problem of gendered division of labour is not solved just because a minority of women are rich enough to hire domestic workers. 

That&#039;s all.

Racial discrimination in employment is bad and illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Terri: </p>
<p>Whoa, I&#8217;m not suggesting that people should discriminate against job applicants who are non-white and hire only white people who already have some money!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just saying that hiring domestic workers does not solve the underlying problem of housework being considered a woman&#8217;s responsibility. Most women in the world, and most women in developed countries, cannot afford to hire someone else to do the housework. I can&#8217;t afford it. The problem of gendered division of labour is not solved just because a minority of women are rich enough to hire domestic workers. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>Racial discrimination in employment is bad and illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: Skud</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/17/from-comments-foolishowl-on-those-pesky-distractions/comment-page-1/#comment-2817</link>
		<dc:creator>Skud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=1658#comment-2817</guid>
		<description>Terri, that&#039;s true, but there&#039;s also something to be said for alleviating the issues that put immigrants in that situation to start with: better support on arrival, free language classes (and a requirement for employers to provide time off for them, or funding to offset loss of casual wages), recognition of foreign qualifications, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terri, that&#8217;s true, but there&#8217;s also something to be said for alleviating the issues that put immigrants in that situation to start with: better support on arrival, free language classes (and a requirement for employers to provide time off for them, or funding to offset loss of casual wages), recognition of foreign qualifications, etc.</p>
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