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	<title>Comments on: FLOSS inclusivity: pragmatic, voluntary, empowering, joyous</title>
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	<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/</link>
	<description>Women, feminism, and geek culture</description>
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		<title>By: koipond</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3628</link>
		<dc:creator>koipond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3628</guid>
		<description>Seconded with the love this comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seconded with the love this comment.</p>
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		<title>By: lsblakk</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3621</link>
		<dc:creator>lsblakk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3621</guid>
		<description>I just have to say, I love this comment.  What an excellent analogy :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just have to say, I love this comment.  What an excellent analogy :)</p>
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		<title>By: FreeDeb</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3616</link>
		<dc:creator>FreeDeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3616</guid>
		<description>I find it weird that people truly believe that more diversity = complete and total abandonment of the cause or project goal.  Particularly in this instance. It&#039;s not like a bunch of clueless strangers are demanding the right to hang out and eat crackers at your celiac support group. When women are wondering if they would be welcome as part of your free software project, it&#039;s because they are interested in being part of a free software project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it weird that people truly believe that more diversity = complete and total abandonment of the cause or project goal.  Particularly in this instance. It&#8217;s not like a bunch of clueless strangers are demanding the right to hang out and eat crackers at your celiac support group. When women are wondering if they would be welcome as part of your free software project, it&#8217;s because they are interested in being part of a free software project.</p>
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		<title>By: koipond</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3605</link>
		<dc:creator>koipond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:08:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3605</guid>
		<description>Hrm ... I wonder if this comment is failing.

Let me see.  Telling a non-priviledge group what they need to do.  Check.
Pushing rights for those of a non-priviledge group seen as &quot;reverse -ism&quot;.  Check
Telling them that by focusing on one group you&#039;re ignoring all the others, ignoring the idea of intersectionality.  Check.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I personally think that the solution should be mostly reactive and the only proactive thing to do is to raise awareness of existing inequalities inside the community.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is le crème de la crème of comments.  Basically what you&#039;re saying is that we should only react to horribly sexist things rather than try to make sure that those with privilege are being made aware of it and calling them on their crap.  So standing outside with pamphlets good, actively providing opportunities for people who wouldn&#039;t have it because those who have all the ability don&#039;t take pamphlets from you, that&#039;s bad.

Very few people scream diversity at all costs.  The rallying cry is &quot;Diversity because it costs.&quot;  The only people who don&#039;t get that are those who are currently not experiencing any problems, people in a priviledge position (those being white, male, TAB and cisgendered) who wonder what the big deal is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hrm &#8230; I wonder if this comment is failing.</p>
<p>Let me see.  Telling a non-priviledge group what they need to do.  Check.<br />
Pushing rights for those of a non-priviledge group seen as &#8220;reverse -ism&#8221;.  Check<br />
Telling them that by focusing on one group you&#8217;re ignoring all the others, ignoring the idea of intersectionality.  Check.</p>
<blockquote><p>I personally think that the solution should be mostly reactive and the only proactive thing to do is to raise awareness of existing inequalities inside the community.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is le crème de la crème of comments.  Basically what you&#8217;re saying is that we should only react to horribly sexist things rather than try to make sure that those with privilege are being made aware of it and calling them on their crap.  So standing outside with pamphlets good, actively providing opportunities for people who wouldn&#8217;t have it because those who have all the ability don&#8217;t take pamphlets from you, that&#8217;s bad.</p>
<p>Very few people scream diversity at all costs.  The rallying cry is &#8220;Diversity because it costs.&#8221;  The only people who don&#8217;t get that are those who are currently not experiencing any problems, people in a priviledge position (those being white, male, TAB and cisgendered) who wonder what the big deal is.</p>
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		<title>By: brainwane</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3596</link>
		<dc:creator>brainwane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3596</guid>
		<description>Benjamin, I&#039;ll let this comment through as a courtesy since I was commenting on your post, but you really should read the links on the right and the &lt;a href=&quot;http://geekfeminism.org/comment-policy/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Geek Feminism comment policy&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Benjamin, I&#8217;ll let this comment through as a courtesy since I was commenting on your post, but you really should read the links on the right and the <a href="http://geekfeminism.org/comment-policy/" rel="nofollow">Geek Feminism comment policy</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Otte</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/01/22/floss-inclusivity-pragmatic-voluntary-empowering-joyous/comment-page-1/#comment-3584</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Otte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2070#comment-3584</guid>
		<description>Disclaimer: I thought about using the women in open source issue as an example in my blog post, but deleted that paragraph because I feared it&#039;d make the post into this topic that I didn&#039;t want to focus on.

I think a big problem in all equality movements is pro-active versus reactive behavior. In the first case you&#039;d say &quot;women should be equally represented&quot; and set a goal that X% of participants should be women. And the next time you have to decide between woman and man, you prefer the woman. This way the minority ends up being &quot;more equal&quot; and that&#039;s problematic. In the reactive case you only tackle problems once they come up and that way depend on people actually making you aware of them. So it has a high barrier of entry, but avoids the &quot;more equal&quot; problem.
That&#039;s btw what always bugged me about &lt;a href=&quot;http://gnomejournal.org/article/48/the-womens-summer-outreach-program&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GNOME WSOP&lt;/a&gt;. It seemed so mean to me to support a project to sponsor specifically women, but not disabled people, Chinese or seniors. All of them are underrepresented in GNOME, too.

I personally think that the solution should be mostly reactive and the only proactive thing to do is to raise awareness of existing inequalities inside the community. Make everyone aware that we lack women, help them come on board and provide them a place where they can gather. Basically continue the way we are currently heading. It worked for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldofwarcraft.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WoW&lt;/a&gt; and computer gaming, it will work here: Women are becoming well respected members of the community on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclaimer: I thought about using the women in open source issue as an example in my blog post, but deleted that paragraph because I feared it&#8217;d make the post into this topic that I didn&#8217;t want to focus on.</p>
<p>I think a big problem in all equality movements is pro-active versus reactive behavior. In the first case you&#8217;d say &#8220;women should be equally represented&#8221; and set a goal that X% of participants should be women. And the next time you have to decide between woman and man, you prefer the woman. This way the minority ends up being &#8220;more equal&#8221; and that&#8217;s problematic. In the reactive case you only tackle problems once they come up and that way depend on people actually making you aware of them. So it has a high barrier of entry, but avoids the &#8220;more equal&#8221; problem.<br />
That&#8217;s btw what always bugged me about <a href="http://gnomejournal.org/article/48/the-womens-summer-outreach-program" rel="nofollow">GNOME WSOP</a>. It seemed so mean to me to support a project to sponsor specifically women, but not disabled people, Chinese or seniors. All of them are underrepresented in GNOME, too.</p>
<p>I personally think that the solution should be mostly reactive and the only proactive thing to do is to raise awareness of existing inequalities inside the community. Make everyone aware that we lack women, help them come on board and provide them a place where they can gather. Basically continue the way we are currently heading. It worked for <a href="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com" rel="nofollow">WoW</a> and computer gaming, it will work here: Women are becoming well respected members of the community on their own.</p>
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