In the situation reported, the woman and her fiance were said to be too busy to take time out to deal with the matter and didn’t want to be seen making a fuss because they were the only ones making a noise about it.

This appears to result in a case of being damned if you do complain and damned if you don’t so I think it is great that people are finally coming to terms with what happens and laying down explicit ground rules as terms of attendance.

Great to spread the word in that way.

Should we now be prepared to ask what policies other conferences, one day events and the like have and explicitly state on harassment – sexual or otherwise?

Mad props to him for clearly and loudly championing everyone’s right to feel safe, and empowering many of us here to tell our stories.

If there’s one thing I got out of this thread, it’s that although *don’t touch strangers* and *get explicit consent* are social norms, legal requirements, and just plain civilized behavior, they still need to be stated over and over, loudly and clearly.

Things that should go without saying still need to be said.

Thank you for bringing this up and linking this. My area’s local one-day winter gamecon is coming up, and our local Camarilla chapter is putting together a bid to host the national convention in the upcoming future. I’ve always pitched in, even if it’s just with setup or teardown, and I think I’ve got one more thing I’ll want to pitch in with.

Our little local con has been referred to, perhaps uncharitably, as a “total sausage fest”. Though I’m not sure that we’ve got stats, I can just eyeball the signup sheets, peek at the games, or stare across the main floor, and see a handful of girls and women. I’ve always figured it was just the local gamer demographic being skewed, thus skewing the turnout, but now I’m going to keep a closer eye on the goings-on. I’m going to ask around. My experiences have always been great, but who knows what lies ahead?

But with men I don’t dare let my guard down. What does he really want, is he just friendly and sociable? Is he playing some weird guy game that’s about messing with the woman’s head? Is he a hound who has to bag every babe, and then brag about it to his buddies? Does he have to assert dominance over every random woman he encounters? Does he assume that just because he is Man, I will hang on his every word and admire him? Is he one of these messed-up guys (and there are a lot of these) who categorize women as either Saintly Mom or Whore? I don’t know which one drives me battier, I get so tired of all these men who assume I have all these maternal impulses just for them, and wish to spend my life taking care of them. (Which goes to show just how obtuse they are, as I have maybe one tiny shriveled maternal bone in my entire body.) Is he some kind of con artist who targets women for his games? I don’t take anyone at face value until I know them better, and most emphatically especially not men.

It is such a minefield. We’re always getting told “You need to stand up for yourselves, girls, or things will never change.” Which is true. But what is the price of that? Violence towards women is everywhere, both physical and emotional, and I haven’t seen a whole lot of progress in my 52 years on the planet. Men don’t go around slapping other men down routinely, whether it’s physical or verbal, the way they do to women. We get special treatment, lucky us. It is so accepted people don’t even see it. There are a whole lot of men who see women as a challenge and a threat to them personally. When was the last time you heard any woman say “I need to teach that so-and-so a lesson”? I bet money never. But there sure are a lot of men who think that is their right, and even their manly duty. Gotta keep the womans in their place. What’s the worst insult you can say to a man? “You’re a girl.” Or fag, I don’t which one is worse.

Yes I know, there are lots of cool men who are not too burdened with weird attitudes to wards women, and lots of women are rotten human beings. The difference is the vast majority of the time I do not have to worry about my safety around women, or have to fight idiotic assumptions and attitudes, or have to listen to them griping how other women don’t want to hang with them and they don’t understand why, so those standoffish uppity women must be defective somehow.

I am not optimistic. I have read much history, talked to older women, and have accumulated a few experiences of my own. I think nothing much will change because men, for the most part, don’t want it to, and it really is up to us women to learn to play the power game and seize what we want. Which are awful things like respect and decency, so it’s no wonder there is so much stubborn defense of the status quo.

I attended small geeky conference in Europe last year, and also in attendance were a friend of mine and a (female) friend of his that were working on a project together in university.

I had the opportunity to talk with her some, which was quite informative given her different perspective on the conference. She said she definitely was not comfortable there. I was a bit surprised, because to me the conference was such a safe place for me to be myself.

On the last day of the conference I was hugging a lot of people goodbye who were standing in a group, including people I had just met at the conference. She happened to be in that group, and there was an awkward “I’ve hugged most everyone else here” kind of moment. And I wasn’t sure what to do when I got to her. It seemed odd to specifically not hug her out of everyone else.
So I asked excplicitly. She said, “Sure.” So we gave each other a quick hug.

Anyway, the point of all this is that later that night (when a bunch of us went out at dinner) a guy started giving her a backrub at another table. It wasn’t clear to me whether she was enjoying it or not, so I didn’t do anything or step in at the time. I regret that deeply, as later she indicated that the guy really creeped her out and that she definitely didn’t enjoy it.

Reading this post makes me question whether I should have given her that hug. I’m pretty sure that guy was in the group I was hugging. I’m also thinking that, in that kind of situation, she probably felt pressured to say yes (which wasn’t my intent). And it’s a lot safer to risk someone feeling a little left out from hugging than it is to put them in a situation where they feel they can’t reject it.

Anyway… a lot of fail on my part.

But (hopefully) I’ve learned some things from this, and reading your post and the linked article reminded me of that experience. Kudos.

And sure, maybe if you’re a scrawny kid who I could easily knock out with a solid punch, it’s not as terrifying… but that’s like saying stealing someone’s laptop is okay because it’s not grand larceny. It’s a total logical fallacy. Less of a crime, maybe, but still a crime. And you never know: maybe the person you’re approaching has a reason to be terrified of someone who looks like you.

For those who don’t get that paragraph above, I point to Schroedinger’s Rapist.

My apologies.

… which is why the very next sentence in the original post was an example with the genders reversed. Chill.

Normally I wouldn’t approve a post that’s clearly derailing discussion, but a friend of mine pointed out something very similar to your point about attractiveness and I wanted to mention it. She commented many geeky men feel that their behaviour is ok because they’re one of the “good” guys, or because they’re not as threateningly large as your stereotypical jock.

And sure, maybe if you’re a scrawny kid who I could easily knock out with a solid punch, it’s not as terrifying… but that’s like saying stealing someone’s laptop is okay because it’s not grand larceny. It’s a total logical fallacy. Less of a crime, maybe, but still a crime. And you never know: maybe the person you’re approaching has a reason to be terrified of someone who looks like you.

So it doesn’t matter if you’re attractive, weak, small, or rescue puppies and orphans in your spare time: what matters is whether your target wants contact with you right then.