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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/</link>
	<description>Women, feminism, and geek culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:40:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: links for 2010-03-06 &#171; meta . ©® . com</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3944</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2010-03-06 &#171; meta . ©® . com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 14:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3944</guid>
		<description>[...] “The biggest enemy of hackerspaces” &quot;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&quot; (tags: hackerspaces feminism familie) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “The biggest enemy of hackerspaces” &quot;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&quot; (tags: hackerspaces feminism familie) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Clement</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3940</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Clement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3940</guid>
		<description>&quot;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&quot;

- Probably? Interesting empirical study based on probabilities and wild guesses.

- Only because YOU are not able to attract more significant others doesn&#039;t mean they are in the way of others.

- If you still haven&#039;t figured out that girlfriends and wives are de-facto the driving factor in this community do some research.


Well out of those few responses I must admit most of them are rather aggressive. This is probably due to the fact that I get annoyed daily by people either bashing women or in some other way making fun of them just because they think they can.

Obviously most people haven&#039;t really thought this through and more importantly tried to get partners involved in HackerSpaces.

Integrating family and your close relationships into Hackerspaces is fun. And the easiest to do that is in Demoing your project once it is completed and asking those attending how you could further either improve it or even mod it (depending on the Project of course)

And diversity does play a huge role as well. I guess it is obvious if you restrict your self to one highly-technical domain, those involved will be mostly men. 

And that by far is not because women would not be capable but simply because for centuries we have been taught that Technical &quot;stuff&quot; is for boys and the fancy shiny stuff for girls.

Seems pretty clear that we need to further change in that area by providing counter measures to this trend (which still exists)

Also the assumption that Hackers are always Hetero is a silly one. But I guess that is simply because humans are human and we need to further explore the other aspects of our society and not assume that the CURRENT social norms are &quot;normal&quot; - Whatever normal is...

From Luxembourg with Love,

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Probably? Interesting empirical study based on probabilities and wild guesses.</p>
<p>- Only because YOU are not able to attract more significant others doesn&#8217;t mean they are in the way of others.</p>
<p>- If you still haven&#8217;t figured out that girlfriends and wives are de-facto the driving factor in this community do some research.</p>
<p>Well out of those few responses I must admit most of them are rather aggressive. This is probably due to the fact that I get annoyed daily by people either bashing women or in some other way making fun of them just because they think they can.</p>
<p>Obviously most people haven&#8217;t really thought this through and more importantly tried to get partners involved in HackerSpaces.</p>
<p>Integrating family and your close relationships into Hackerspaces is fun. And the easiest to do that is in Demoing your project once it is completed and asking those attending how you could further either improve it or even mod it (depending on the Project of course)</p>
<p>And diversity does play a huge role as well. I guess it is obvious if you restrict your self to one highly-technical domain, those involved will be mostly men. </p>
<p>And that by far is not because women would not be capable but simply because for centuries we have been taught that Technical &#8220;stuff&#8221; is for boys and the fancy shiny stuff for girls.</p>
<p>Seems pretty clear that we need to further change in that area by providing counter measures to this trend (which still exists)</p>
<p>Also the assumption that Hackers are always Hetero is a silly one. But I guess that is simply because humans are human and we need to further explore the other aspects of our society and not assume that the CURRENT social norms are &#8220;normal&#8221; &#8211; Whatever normal is&#8230;</p>
<p>From Luxembourg with Love,</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>By: i heart digital life &#187; links for 2010-03-06</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3938</link>
		<dc:creator>i heart digital life &#187; links for 2010-03-06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3938</guid>
		<description>[...] “The biggest enemy of hackerspaces” &quot;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&quot; (tags: hackerspaces feminism familie) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “The biggest enemy of hackerspaces” &quot;The biggest enemy of hackerspaces and techshops is probably girlfriends and wives.&quot; (tags: hackerspaces feminism familie) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3932</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3932</guid>
		<description>Well, not if they&#039;re up by that much &lt;em&gt;most weeks&lt;/em&gt;: it&#039;s probably easier to do it all the time, in fact. In the family model we&#039;re talking about, the breadwinner doesn&#039;t have the faintest idea what the bread costs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, not if they&#8217;re up by that much <em>most weeks</em>: it&#8217;s probably easier to do it all the time, in fact. In the family model we&#8217;re talking about, the breadwinner doesn&#8217;t have the faintest idea what the bread costs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3929</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3929</guid>
		<description>I guess if she shaved a bit each week til she had enough for a new dress&#8230; But  if suddenly the week&#039;s groceries cost $150 more than usual, that&#039;d be noticeable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess if she shaved a bit each week til she had enough for a new dress&hellip; But  if suddenly the week&#8217;s groceries cost $150 more than usual, that&#8217;d be noticeable.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3928</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3928</guid>
		<description>To get a bit OT, well, presumably the show was exaggerating how much money she was able to spend without him knowing, but in a &#039;traditional&#039; (mid-20C) gender role marriage the woman would need quite a lot of access to the family finances, to purchase food, household goods, everything the children needed, quite likely clothes for both adults and such. Unless he was doing a lot of micro-managing, she could buy things for herself without &#039;permission&#039; (ugh).

In the closest example I personally know of to that model, the woman was in fact a trained bookkeeper and as farmers and small business owners, the house ran on a perfect double-entry ledger. She could have hidden a lot of things (not being a sitcom character, I don&#039;t think she did). The man outlived the woman and had to be taught by his sons how to pay bills and read his bank statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To get a bit OT, well, presumably the show was exaggerating how much money she was able to spend without him knowing, but in a &#8216;traditional&#8217; (mid-20C) gender role marriage the woman would need quite a lot of access to the family finances, to purchase food, household goods, everything the children needed, quite likely clothes for both adults and such. Unless he was doing a lot of micro-managing, she could buy things for herself without &#8216;permission&#8217; (ugh).</p>
<p>In the closest example I personally know of to that model, the woman was in fact a trained bookkeeper and as farmers and small business owners, the house ran on a perfect double-entry ledger. She could have hidden a lot of things (not being a sitcom character, I don&#8217;t think she did). The man outlived the woman and had to be taught by his sons how to pay bills and read his bank statements.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3924</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3924</guid>
		<description>Ugh, yeah, I&#039;ve been wondering lately how those &quot;1950s ideal&quot; marriages could have worked at all, when the couples were constantly lying to each other.  Lucy would buy dresses and leave them unworn in the closet for 3 months so she could honestly say to Ricky, when he saw her wear it for the first time, &quot;what, this old thing? It&#039;s been hanging in the closet for months!&quot;  Which then leaves me wondering where she got the money and how he didn&#039;t notice it missing and things since she was a housewife and only had a paying job in a few episodes (when Ricky and Fred tried to be househusbands because they had a bet with Lucy and Ethel).  If they couldn&#039;t talk openly about finances&#8230;!

Which reminds me&#8230;Fred and Ricky referred to Lucy and Ethel as &quot;the girls&quot; quite a lot for women in their 30s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh, yeah, I&#8217;ve been wondering lately how those &#8220;1950s ideal&#8221; marriages could have worked at all, when the couples were constantly lying to each other.  Lucy would buy dresses and leave them unworn in the closet for 3 months so she could honestly say to Ricky, when he saw her wear it for the first time, &#8220;what, this old thing? It&#8217;s been hanging in the closet for months!&#8221;  Which then leaves me wondering where she got the money and how he didn&#8217;t notice it missing and things since she was a housewife and only had a paying job in a few episodes (when Ricky and Fred tried to be househusbands because they had a bet with Lucy and Ethel).  If they couldn&#8217;t talk openly about finances&hellip;!</p>
<p>Which reminds me&hellip;Fred and Ricky referred to Lucy and Ethel as &#8220;the girls&#8221; quite a lot for women in their 30s.</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3920</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3920</guid>
		<description>Yesterday, I was thinking about all those old TV shows where it is assumed that wives lie to their husbands about how they spend their time and vice versa, think: I Love Lucy, Flintstones, Bewitched, etc. Sadly, I think the idea that men and women &quot;naturally&quot; want to spend their time differently and that lying -- either outright or by omission -- is the way to make sure you get to spend your time in a way that reflects your values, is still pervasive. 

Hopefully, many couples have sorted this out and their hackerspace buddies insist on seeing their actions through an outdated lens because the alternative implies that something about the hackerspace could be improved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday, I was thinking about all those old TV shows where it is assumed that wives lie to their husbands about how they spend their time and vice versa, think: I Love Lucy, Flintstones, Bewitched, etc. Sadly, I think the idea that men and women &#8220;naturally&#8221; want to spend their time differently and that lying &#8212; either outright or by omission &#8212; is the way to make sure you get to spend your time in a way that reflects your values, is still pervasive. </p>
<p>Hopefully, many couples have sorted this out and their hackerspace buddies insist on seeing their actions through an outdated lens because the alternative implies that something about the hackerspace could be improved.</p>
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		<title>By: johannes</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3912</link>
		<dc:creator>johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3912</guid>
		<description>Here is our critical acclaim of what was, is and could be a hackerspace (or hacklab, for that matter)... might be of interest for you...

http://monochrom.at/hacking-the-spaces/

Cheers
Johannes, monochrom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is our critical acclaim of what was, is and could be a hackerspace (or hacklab, for that matter)&#8230; might be of interest for you&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://monochrom.at/hacking-the-spaces/" rel="nofollow">http://monochrom.at/hacking-the-spaces/</a></p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Johannes, monochrom</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Forr</title>
		<link>http://geekfeminism.org/2010/03/04/the-biggest-enemy-of-hackerspaces/comment-page-1/#comment-3906</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Forr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://geekfeminism.org/?p=2124#comment-3906</guid>
		<description>Yatima,

I think you bring up a point that touches on the larger question a hand. Which is, how do we as people find to make the most of our hackerspace/whatever else in life?

I think you could really say: &#039;The biggest enemy of xxxx is probably insertBigTimeInvestmentHere.&#039;

I&#039;m still have a bunch of projects hanging on the shelf at the Node, I can only hope that I can get in there soon to finish them.

(Nonwithstanding, OP obvious views his relationship with his SO as being at odds with his hobbies and so maybe he should consider finding a new SO)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yatima,</p>
<p>I think you bring up a point that touches on the larger question a hand. Which is, how do we as people find to make the most of our hackerspace/whatever else in life?</p>
<p>I think you could really say: &#8216;The biggest enemy of xxxx is probably insertBigTimeInvestmentHere.&#8217;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still have a bunch of projects hanging on the shelf at the Node, I can only hope that I can get in there soon to finish them.</p>
<p>(Nonwithstanding, OP obvious views his relationship with his SO as being at odds with his hobbies and so maybe he should consider finding a new SO)</p>
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