Warning: some misogynist and ableist slurs quoted, and links may contain comments with additional slurs.
Alyssa Bereznak went on a date, discovered her date was a champion Magic: The Gathering player whose life centred on it and thought it was uncool of him not to mention that in his OKCupid profile. She didn’t really spare the snark:
At dinner I got straight down to it. Did he still play [Magic: The Gathering]? â€œYes.â€ Strike one. How often? â€œIâ€™m preparing for a tournament this weekend.â€ Strike two. Who did he hang out with? â€œIâ€™ve met all my best friends through Magic.â€ Strike three. I smiled and nodded and listened. Eventually I even felt a little bit bad that I didnâ€™t know shit about the game. Here was a guy who had dedicated a good chunk of his life to mastering Magic, on a date with a girl who can barely play Solitaire. This is what happens, I thought, when you lie in your online profile. I was lured on a date thinking Iâ€™d met a normal finance guy, only to realise he was a champion dweeb in hedge funderâ€™s clothingâ€¦ Mothers, warn your daughters! This could happen to you. Youâ€™ll think youâ€™ve found a normal bearded guy with a job, only to end up sharing goat cheese with a world champion of nerds.
Elly Hart describes Bereznak’s actions as creepy, bitchy and predatory (and apparently there’s much worse out there).
Sady Doyle argues that it’s OK, good in fact, to have preferences in dating and to exercise them:
NOT SO FAST THERE! The Internet, Ph.D. has found you guilty of OPPRESSION! That most horrible, socially harmful, Internet-comment-generating of all â€œoppressions:â€ Thinking stuff is kind of dorky. Itâ€™s awful! Itâ€™s mean! Itâ€™s unfair! And, worst of all, it results in women thinking they have the right not to sleep with men they find unattractive!
Doyle’s comment thread is worth a read. There’s a lot of push back, particularly noting that while the Internet at large has been massively faily, Alyssa Bereznak’s date (Jon Finkel) has himself responded quite calmly and non-horribly, and some people talking about Bereznak’s use of anti-geek snobbery and contempt. See for example Lilivati at 59:
Iâ€™m not defending the misogyny and sexism evident in the comments, because there is no call for that. Nor am I going to argue that nerds are an â€œoppressed groupâ€ on the order of other groups.
But when Iâ€™m at work and people are talking about their weekends, about how they rerouted the cable in their house or won a softball game or other â€œacceptableâ€ uses of free time, when asked about MY weekend, I do not say â€œOh, I picked out some new miniatures to paint and then spent most of Sunday playing Pathfinder online with my friends.â€
Why not? Because -this- is what happens when you do. Your hobbies are not acceptable, so the â€œnormal peopleâ€ around you do their best to shame and humiliate you into more acceptable behavior.
And Kiturak at 77:
My problem is that there are people in my life who know about my being [feminist/ bi/ poly/ genderqueer/ mentally disabled] â€“ and to whom I still wouldnâ€™t tell What I Did During The Weekend.
Especially if I spend too much time(tm) on said embarrassing activity. Which I do as a means of escaping all that shit for just a little while, and doing something fun.
The problem is that this is what happens when I tell, as Lilivati said. I wonâ€™t even small-talk to people about my harmless fun-times. Because I donâ€™t need yet another way of being called a freak.
There’s pushback against the pushback too. Amy at 69:
This is more about how sexism can function independently within a group of educated people. There are very few single comments here that I disagree with. BUT. There have been vastly more words exhausted on whether or not Ms. Bereznekâ€™s article is mean/bad/elitist than on the truly horrible misogyny directed at her. And the latter was the point of [Doyles's] articleâ€¦
â€¦women who say â€œno,â€ without any qualifiers or excuses, get a lot of dangerous backlash. Here we have a woman doing just that in a truly spectacular way. And there has been backlash. I didnâ€™t expect to see backlash here, but itâ€™s been here too. Not in any one comment, but in people expressing the same thoughts I originally had: â€œThe misogyny is bad and no one deserves that, but sheâ€™s kind of an asshole.â€ And then proceeding to spend a lot more words on why sheâ€™s an asshole than on the misogynistic comments thrown her way.
Iâ€™m really uncomfortable with the number of people here who are looking at â€œbeing kind of snobby about social interestsâ€ vs. â€œbeing openly misogynist,â€ and deciding that Problem A is more serious than Problem B. And itâ€™s disappointing to me that so many women are willing to participate in that. Just above, Iâ€™ve got a (probably going to get deleted) comment that actually talks about nerds as a â€œminorityâ€ and says that her post is actually equivalent to a misogynist statement. And thatâ€™s just bullshit. I care a hell of a lot more about an institutional, structural oppression thatâ€™s gone on for thousands of years and resulted in the denial of human rights to half the planet than I do about people being snobby to each other sometimes. I donâ€™t love snobbiness, either, but that doesnâ€™t mean I have to pretend itâ€™s even close to being a structural oppression, and deserves the same weight or importance in conversations.
Actually? From what I can see, thereâ€™s a power dynamic that nobody is willing to talk about. Which is that nerds, on the Internet, are not bullied. They are the bullies. Maybe you just donâ€™t want to talk to me about this, this week. Or maybe thereâ€™s the fact that the subculture is known for being aggressive, abusive, and misogynist, and that if you dare to think youâ€™re allowed to have an opinion about it, you will receive (as I have done) the following comments:
The bully-bullied dynamic in geekdom and by geekdom is complex. Right now, there are people like Lilivati and Kiturak being shamed at best and hurt at worst for geeky interests. Geeks may not be a protected class experiencing oppression in the way the term is used in social justice, but victims of bullying and the bullying dynamic need and deserve systemic intervention. And women geeks have it worse: our geekiness is viewed as a more unacceptable departure from social norms, and our relative powerlessness leads to more bullying. Geeks rule parts of the Internet, but right now, there’s a geek (or a hundred) being shamed, teased or abused online too.
And absolutely, many geeks are bullies too. They bully within geekdom, they bully non-geeks when they can. Having been a victim of bullying is not protective against becoming a bully, in fact often experiencing bullying and abuse is where one learns the art of bullying others. It’s not news on this site that geek culture has its own takes on misogyny and other oppressions with a side of geeky spin.
So what then? I’m absolutely clear that Bereznak can end or never start relationships based on any criteria she pleases, and that women exercising preferences shouldn’t be a secret thing. (“Sure, women can reject men, but ssssssh it’s a secret.”) And Internet snark from women results in an unjustified maelstrom of hate, that’s for sure. On the other hand Bereznak isn’t exactly challenging acceptable-hobby hierachies here and while she may not have harmed Jon Finkel as it happens, people like Lilivati and Kiturak, geeky people who are also in marginalised groups, got hurt. And I don’t think that’s nothing, either. Geek marginalisation is important because organising one’s life around fields of interests is the way that some people prefer to live or the only way their mind works, it’s not inherently oppressive or unethical (although it is not inherently free of same either), and some (many) geeks are not cruel, entitled, misogynist, empowered Internet trolls. We’re not trying to improve geek culture for the high earning able-bodied etc geeks: we are doing it for the oppressed geeks, whose oppression comes with extra lumps of shaming and excluding for their geekiness.
I see Amy’s point though: it’s not acceptable either to say quickly: sure-there-was-some-misogynist-nastiness BUT HEY LOOK AT THAT ANTI-GEEK SNARK LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT 100%. I worry that in some ways we don’t talk about the misogyny because it’s simply such constant news. A woman spoke on the Internet. Cue hate. Even feminists are burned out or too scared to look, now.
Hard stuff folks: what do you think?
Elsewhere: On A Woman Choosing Not To Date A Geek